The confusing Microsoft messenger

The World's largest software company has me confused (again). But not this time over the naming of their software development tools or their licensing agreements for SME's, but over a seemingly small piece of technology, the enterprise messenger tool set.

It's pretty obvious that Microsoft's general consumer instant messenger product is no longer used by half as many people as a few years ago. In fact a quick sign in to MS Messenger (something I've not knowingly done in years) shows very few of my old contacts do the same. I guess the complete take-over of the social space by Facebook, which has its own messaging service, and Twitter has taken its toll. So many people now use Twitter as a peer-to-peer messaging service, as well as a way to broadcast their thoughts...it's taken over (within my sphere of friends anyway) as the primary online tool for 1-2-1 dialogue..... with mobile chat & text still the major platform with the younger generation.

I've also recently started using Lync, the computer-telephone integrated software that is described by Microsoft as their 'Enterprise-ready unified communications playform'. If you've never used it before, it is: part Messenger, part Skype, with Outlook integration. Note: it even has a mobile app, that I've not yet got to work.

So why then did MS this May just pay $8.5billion for Skype (making it their biggest every acquisition) and then only a couple of weeks ago agree to purchase Yammer, a leading provider of enterprise social networking services for $1.2 billion in cash?

Although Skype will create its own division (department not rift) within the software giant, Yammer will join the Microsoft Office Division. Potentially meaning that it will be integrated somehow with Lync and possibly Skype & Messenger?

This sounds like too many packages all doing the same thing to me. Each has it's own unique productive functionality, but they all also have significant functionality overlap, that will have to be integrated, standardised and quite possibly rationalised.

The challenges of the modern digital marketer

Having recently asked the question of several job applicants "what are the biggest challenges currently faced by the digital marketer?" I thought I'd give my own answer (coming perhaps a little too late if, dear reader, you were looking for any pre-interview insight).

1. The speed of change
The rate things change in the online marketing industry is amazing. What was accepted practice only a month or so, e.g. in a field such as search engine optimisation, is quickly outdated or even counter productive.

2. The complexity of technology
It is no longer enough these days to say "oh, that's technical, I don't need to understand that". Technology is now an intrinsic part of digital marketing and it is only getting more intertwined with other strands (such as content & customer data) and complex.

3. The increasing demands of the user
Although I state that user needs are increasing, I should point out that a lot of their requirements (e.g. An intuitive interface, the ability to do what they want on any device, etc) are not new.... They have just not been possible to deliver, due to technology, budget or other constraints). That said, there's no doubt in my mind that the target of your marketing efforts now expects: timely, relevant and engaging contact via any channel and in a more personalised manner. Gone are the days of 'spray & pray' email campaigns and woe betide any company that doesn't produce a suite of different creative options targeted at specie groups of users.

4. The social feedback loop
There can be no excuse these days for tuning into the social back-channel for your brand or service. Tools are now freely (or paid for if you want a better service or experience) available for listening to what your intended audience is saying. Sure, it comes with its own unique challenges and difficulties, but surely part of the 'fun' is finding these out and solving them?
If you're not listening, you're not marketing.

The 5 steps to creating a successful Digital Strategy

Here’s my 5 steps to creating a successful Digital Strategy

1. Understand …

…. not only the commercial goals, but the stakeholders & team involved. Take time to then walk through the current digital requirements (priorities & dependencies) and all the relevant internal processes that you have to work within  (there will be some, even on a ‘green field’ project – or as I recently said to one senior marketer, who said there were no restrictions: “every green field has borders eventually”. 

2. Review …..

all existing projects, including any project interdependencies with the work done by other departments (e.g. IT),  current suppliers of online services (e.g. Digital Agencies) and make sure you know what KPI's (Key Performance Indicators) are reported against across the business. 

Note: You should also take the time to identify the immediate wins (e.g. is there something so obvious and easy that is can be done now?)

3. Document…

Key Deliverables. This means writing up what has to be done and when it is expected. Focus both on commercial optimisation (operational efficiency) and innovation to gain competitive advantage. Consider all digital touch-points, where possible adopting a user-centred approach and cover all lines of business, such as: B2C, B2B, Back office (e.g. purchasing).

4. Plan….

for success by creating a rolling 30 day plan that keeps delivering wins and fixes over the short and medium term. From this build up a longer-term roadmap that integrates functionality with marketing activity (content, campaigns, etc.). Where necessary develop robust justifications (business cases) for large pieces of work.

5. Future-proofing…

means considering all changes likely to occur over the roadmap timescales. I use the “STEP” acronym as a handy way to classify the different innovation drivers:

a.       Social (what will individuals and groups do differently?)

b.      Technological (what new software or devices are expected?)

c.       Economic (how will and increase/decrease in household income affect you plans?)

d.      Political (why legislation is due that could cause an impact to the organisation?)

 

Aggregator Maturity

Recently I've been posting my thoughts on the online aggregation services, including the more mathematical Herfindahl Index.Last month I was attempting to explain to someone how aggregation got more technically complex as the product or service became more complex and I quickly drew out a table that explained it. So now I have put it up online to shame and to get feedback.Aggregator Maturity

View more PowerPoint from Hayden Sutherland

As always, I see this as 'work in progress' and never a definitive completed concept.

Aggregation and the Herfindahl index

The Herfindahl Index (AKA the Hirschman-Herfindahl Index or HHI) is a measurement of the competitiveness of a particular industry. The index gives a figure between 0 and 1, with those markets closest to zero being more competitive and those closest to 1 being an (almost) monopoly.


An increase in the index typically means that there’s been a decrease in competition and therefore greater market power to those still operating. Whereas a decrease towards zero indicates more companies fighting over the same customer base and therefore the existence of a more ‘perfect’ and competitive market.
So why is the Herfindahl Index important in the online aggregators markets? Well, over the last decade, the appearance of aggregators in different online markets has created a more level playing field for customers; by collating the rates and fees for different suppliers and presenting them to the online user in an easy-to-compare format. Therefore in those markets where price is so-often the defining decision factor, such as utilities, financial services and travel, the use of aggregators increases competition and pushes the Herfindahl Index figure closer to zero.

Take the UK motor insurance market right now. As you will see from the diagram below (sourced from Towers Watson’s report ‘why aren’t we making money’
www.towerswatson.com/assets/.../Why-arent-we-making-money.pdf

In the last 10 years (really since the appearance of confused.com which was the first UK motor insurance aggregator) the HHI has moved closer to zero.

So what are the implications of this? Well, if anything is predictable, it is that the UK motor insurance market is going to get more (not less) price sensitive over the next few years, becoming more like the oil and airline industry in its competitiveness, unless something happens to interrupt this trend……

eCommerce Directors for Dummies

I think there needs to be a new book added to the 'Dummies' range. One that explains the basics for some people on the subject of leading an ecommerce department. Why? Well, it seems that not everyone who reaches this role necessarily knows all the key points needed to stay in it.

Ask yourself:

• Have you told everyone that you know all about pay-per-click strategies, but secretly wonder what all this chat about "AdWords" is?

• Have you got an understanding of conversion rates, but aren't too sure if it is orders divided by visitors or orders divided by visits?

• Do you think data-driven marketing is looking at your Google Analytics to see how your email campaigns are going?

If so, then perhaps you need a copy! (if it is ever published).

Note: Apologies to the 'Dummies' books for such a blatant copyright infringement

the corporate layers - an idea developed

In a recent post I started to work through my thoughts around the development of McKinsey's company software layer concept. I mentioned that I thought there was at least one obvious omission (e.g. web services) and that a single layer to explain it all was too simple.

So now I find myself putting forward an evolved version of this idea, unashamedly taking McKinsey's model as the basis of it.

Corporate layers

View more PowerPoint from Hayden Sutherland

As you can see from my embedded presentation there are now five proposed layers rather than just two.

1. Core business processes
2. Web services & API’s
3. Owned media such as website(s), Apps, Kiosks, etc.
4. Paid media such as online advertising (PPC, etc.)
5. Earned media such as Social, Word-of-mouth, etc.

Although I believe the lines between owned, paid and earned are now becoming increasingly blurred, there is a place for each of the different communication media in my new model.

The digital age – a new world?

The following is a guest posting by entrepreneur Ben Blomerley

I read Hayden’s last blog post about innovation with interest. I was fascinated by the line ‘adaptation and change are just business-as-usual’. It is absolutely true – okay, maybe the pace of change is faster than it used to be, but there are more tools and skills out there than there used to be that help you deal with that pace. But businesses have always had to adapt and innovate to survive – I’m sure Thomas Edison wouldn’t recognise GE now, and what Charles Flint would make of IBM is anyone’s guess!

It’s interesting to take a few examples. Pinterest is fascinating for me, given the way that it seemed to explode from nowhere (it didn’t – it’s over two years old). But what did it do? Revolutionise a business model? Create something completely unexpected? No – what it did was look at the market and realised that social networks massively underserved bored Midwestern housewives. They wanted a way to share, in an incredibly easy way, the things that interested them. And that’s Pinterest – social media for an under-served category. 

And let’s look at that, too – the idea of successful social media (or social media campaigns). Every day I read a story about how people can’t get their social media campaigns moving. Corporations big and small throwing money at it because they have to be ‘in’ social media – or even worse, not throwing enough money at it, leaving it to the interns who, being young, must ‘get’ it. But the principles of social media are easy –something that someone wants to share, someone who wants to share, someone who wants to listen, a call to action, and monitor what’s happening.

A final thing I find very interesting is that I see people who are worried about barriers to entry in this new digital age. If any kid with a laptop can knock up a website, how can established players protect their markets? Whilst it’s true – and fantastic – that you have punchy upstarts shaking up the established order, looking at competition is not a new thing. And there’s plenty than can still be done – punchy upstarts can’t build quality content, for example. And people still want to see something on a website, they need a reason to be there. I found this post by Mark Schaefer fascinating on what the new careers in social media will be (and no reason to think it stops with social media!) 

So – what do these three examples say? Is Pinterest a revolution? Is social media an alien concept? Can nobody defend themselves against an engineer with an idea? No. These are three age old concepts of business. You need to look at your customers. You need to execute well. And you need to look at what your competitors are doing, how you can entrench your position. 

Is innovation new? No. 

Are the fundamentals of doing business in this new world different? Well, what do you think?

Bio:

Ben Blomerley is the founder of AskHerFriends (www.askherfriends.com), which aims to apply some digital age solutions to an age old problem – how a guy can get better gifts for the women in his life!

Are you employing the right digital staff?

As I speak to various companies in my consulting travels around the UK, I meet a lot of boards who are looking to hire senior digital staff.

They look internally and then externally, but don't find the people they think they need.
In my opinion this can be for a number of reasons including:

1. There is nobody else in the organisation to benchmark senior digital people against. The digital 'all rounder' often needs to be a combination of creative marketer, technical geek and strategic thought leader. But often they might also call themselves a planner, architect or programme manager (and a lot more besides).

2. Internal staff and HR interviewing them might not be up to speed on all the latest tools, techniques and technologies. So therefore the selection and interview process is flawed.

3. The small number of truly good people in the market means that candidates are thin on the ground and snapped up quickly.

Therefore my advice for those organisations looking to hire someone like this is:

- focus on what candidates have done, rather than what their titles have been

- consider bringing in an independent specialist just to help you define, search, filter resumes and interview candidates

- move quickly when you think you've found the right person

Infographication

Infographics, they're everywhere you go online these days.

Follow someone on Twitter?
Then watch them link off to an image full of bar graphs, circles and calibrated scales.

Reading an online news site?
Then expect a convoluted embedded image showing growth / decline in this commodity or that financial product, when all you really want is a green tick or a red cross (or just the words "Buy" or "sell")
Note: Some are now animated or allow you to see progress over time.

Attending an industry presentation?
Expect the occasional slide pulled together in Adobe Illustrator that baffles more than it explains.

Infographication, the practice of using too many complex infographics.

Sure, a picture does paint a thousand words, but what if you only need to say a few?

Is the term innovation overused?

Yes!

'Innovation', along with the buzzwords 'synergy' and 'efficiency' have now become such a cliché that they have lost their impact to most people.

However, in an always on world where ideas are instantly streamed from pc to pc and continent to continent, success is short and new products & strategies are copied quicker than ever.

A lot of companies who now claim to be innovative are just doing their job. Adaptation and change are just business-as-usual things that organisations need to do to maintain the status quo.

But still I see companies talk about innovation as something that happens to a single person and not the entire organisation. It's a flash of inspiration, rather than a cultural way of building competitiveness.

Perhaps we need to rethink innovation or come up with a new term for things?

Digital DNA - do you have it?

Everything you use these days is powered, improved or made by technology. From the kettle you boil your morning tea with, through to the smartphone you browse the web with, play games with, share images with and occasionally make calls with. Technology is unavoidable in the modern world.

But some people just seem to understand it more, they just 'get it'  and others don't. Why is this? 

It's pretty obvious that younger people, the digital natives, are far more savvy than the older  ones. They've been weaned and brought up seeing tech used in everyday life and are far more familiar with it in business, encouraging the BYOB (bring your own device) approach that we now see IT departments struggling with. My three year old daughter tells me "daddy, the tv is broken" because it isn't touchscreen and doesn't allow her all the choice available on her* iPad.

* I haven't actually bought her a £500 device, this is a work purchase. But somehow it typically finds its way onto her lap when it's not being used.

But it's not just an old vs new thing. I've seen some young people struggle with even a simple device and have observed senior citizens pick up & use intricate equipment like they've always had it. On top of this, there are grades of tech understanding, which sees some users coding complex development code in minutes and others just about able to use consumer devices.

I put this down to something I've been referring to as Digital DNA. The additional skill of understanding modern technology and being able to use it quickly and effectively for either passing the time, saving time or for commercial gain. 

Don't get me wrong, this is not some genetic mutation I'm suggesting here, that will be revealed by sequencing the chromosomes of specific people. It's actually a mental function that either exists or is developed (natured or nurtured? That's perhaps a question for another time), but I call it Digital DNA because for me this goes to the core of an individual. It means they are far more likely to integrate tech products and concepts into their work & play. They have it within them to understand how things work and integrate without much explanation and then are willing to learn as they go.

The secret for any employer looking to keep ahead of the competition in the online and increasingly multi-channel market, is to identify these people within the organisation and decide how best to use and encourage this innate ability.

--
Hayden Sutherland
www.idealinterface.co.uk
Digital Strategy - Website Delivery - Online Marketing
+44 (0)780 1341955

Ecommerce for everyone

I work with some fab companies, helping them implement or take their ecommerce operations forward. These tend to be major organisations who have established retail operations, such as stores.

The digital marketplace has quickly filled up, leaving only those companies who have yet to take the ecommerce leap. This is a diminishing minority now, mainly made up of those who think they are either too small to set up an online sales channel or who are happy enough to let someone else run the digital commerce channel for them.

But what opportunities are there for other companies to move into the ecommerce space?  What about those websites who don't already have an existing sales channel, could they benefit?

Quite possibly.

Setting up a professional ecommerce operation isn't as difficult as you might think. 

Isn't it about time we had eCommerce for everyone who wants it?

How can companies stay ahead in the 21st Century?

Business life is hard right now and even the large corporates are having to examine everything they do to stat ahead. Here’s some of my high-level thoughts on the trends andapproaches that are shaping the modern digital workplace and therefore how competitive edge can still be maintained:

1. Digital DNA

Online is not a 'bolt on' to the customer's life, it is howthey live their life now; digital has become part of the customer DNA. Theyadopt, use and integrate technology all the time, to either save time or wastetime. Businesses therefore need to put themselves in the mind of thedigitally-savvy customer or just think like the customer they actually are.This is especially true of the newer generation (Generation Y / Millenials /etc.) who are ‘Digital Natives’, for whom most cannot remember a time beforethe Internet and the use of multiple screens is an everyday occurrence.

The aim is therefore to create understanding, encourageinnovative & agile ‘web 2.0’ thinking within a company and learn how to apply this within the modern working environment.

2. Customer-centric 

The concept of ‘User Centred Design’ has been successfullyutilised for over a decade now to create online experiences that put the userat the heart of the process, rather than just being a passive node that has todeal with whatever interface the system creates at the end.

This turns some business processes on their heads, as theway some corporate departments and product catalogues are structured are notnecessarily the way that users want to browse, search, consume, etc.

Be prepared to turn things upside down if it means thedifference between doing what you’ve always done and what needs to be done tomove forwards.

3. The connected corporate ecosystem

As more systems become interconnected and as we all learnthat data does not have to be re-entered if it already exist online in someform…. This will provide the opportunity for some data (e.g. inferred from auser’s browsing history) to be integrated with other data (e.g. explicitknowledge about a user’s age, purchase habits, etc.) and to significantlyreduce human errors such as those from simple data re-keying. The semantic webis almost upon us, is your business ready?

4. Use of Data for insight

Thanks to the Internet, every 2 days the human race nowcreates as much information as it did in its entire history up to 2003. Thisgrowth in ‘big data’ creates its own challenges (e.g. the storage and abilityto quickly access the right data, re-posted mis-information, etc.) as well asits own opportunities, such as an unprecedented amount of useful data on userbehaviour.  This therefore facilitates afar greater level of personalisation and supports various real-time activities& incentives such as individual offers and rewards (perhaps the very reasonwhy mega supermarket Tesco used & subsequently purchased DunnHumby forcustomer insight and data driven marketing purposes) plus then the future predictivecapabilities that may come from this.

Turbo-charging your digital marketing strategy workshop

This week I flew off to participate in a day of meetings and discussions about the digital marketing plans for a well know IT equipment manufacturer.

The whole day went really well (in my opinion) and as well as meeting people I'd only spoken to on the phone before, I got to do what I really enjoy.... Standing up at a whiteboard with a marker pen & post-it notes and working in a collaborative way to map out "what the short and medium term will look like".

Doing this sort of workshop can at-times be a little daunting, however I've done enough of them in the past to be able to cover most problems that are likely to occur. But this session was actually made a lot easier by two important factors that I wanted to share:

Firstly, by having an agency team around me who are not just smart (even though we all got up before 4:30am that morning to catch our flight), but able to think in a commercial and practical way.

Secondly, having a couple of clients participate in the workshop who are not only digitally-savvy, but driven, passionate and fun at the same time.

This all meant we were able to not only get the plan of work for the short & medium term mapped out, but we got to understand far more about the supporting factors, systems and processes necessary to deliver the business objectives. In essence, getting twice the work done in the same amount of time.

If only every workshop could be like that!

Research online, purchase offline - don't miss out

ROPO is a term introduced by Google some while back to reflect the cross channel habits of today's modern shoppers who research online and then go on to purchase offline.


This is often the unmeasured factor in eCommerce sales, where the online store has actually contributed to an in-store sale by helping the user view the product online (e.g. see the button detail of a jacket, view the specifications of a computer component or read the details of a hotel or resort) before a customer then wanders into a physical location and hands over money to buy the actual goods. 


This shouldn't be confused with the other multi-channel functionality such as: 
click & collect (view, select & pay for your products online, collect in-store)
click & reserve (view & select your products online, pay & collect in-store)


So how do you, as an online marketer help, in this cross-channel transaction? Here's some thoughts:


1. Provide every possible means on your site to help the user record and remember the product they have chosen. This especially means making that 'Print' button easy to find (especially when the item you are displaying online is out of stock).
It is worth noting that some online stores do not include an on-site option to print out the product detail page, instead relying on the browser print function. I'm not a great believer in this, as over time most of the browser companies have done their utmost to hide the print function behind hard-to-find menu options.


2. Make sure your site visitor knows where your stores are!
Simple I know, but assuming you don't yet have the full multi-channel capability to inform your visitor of the exact stock position of each store, make sure the links to your store finder tool is easy to find.
Note: Whilst on this subject, PLEASE make sure the phone numbers of each store are accurate and clearly displayed too.


Furthermore with the increased adoption of mobile / smartphone usage, users aren't just researching online at home.... they are researching all the time online, including in-store! Yup, they are quite possibly browsing your mobile site, app or maybe just your main site in a smartphone whilst wandering around your premises.


John Lewis identified this issue last year and announced their plans for in-sore WiFi in October:
Here's what they said about this:
"More than 60 per cent of John Lewis customers research products online before visiting a shop to make a purchase and in-store Wi-Fi access allows them to continue and complete that journey, accessing product information and viewing ratings and reviews to influence their purchase."
http://www.johnlewispartnership.co.uk/media/press/y2011/press-release-21-october-2011-john-lewis-commits-to-free-wifi-in-all-its-shops.html 


With the Multi-channel & eCommerce landscape becoming more competitive all the time, it will be increasingly hard to ignore ROPO as a factor that contributes to sales.

Paid, Owned and Earned - blurring boundaries

I recently put some thoughts together for a client on the blurring boundaries between paid, owned and earned media. Take a look at the presentation below on my initial thoughts on this (note: this isn't meant to be comprehensive, as some of this is client-specific)Paid Owned & Earned : The blurring boundaries

View more PowerPoint from Hayden

This theme has also been mentioned by Rebecca Lieb from Altimeter Research, who has given some more specific examples of how the boandaries between these three different media classifications are now very blurred.
http://www.imediaconnection.com/printpage/printpage.aspx?id=31333

To me its clear that both clients and their agencies must eventually integrate all three of these media to get the maximum return on investment (of resource / time and money).

Companies and the services layers

I recently received a report from McKinsey [link] that covered the topic of the 'corporate software layer'. This wasn't just another publication talking about application development standards, it referred to a metaphorical layer of services that surrounds the core 'hardware' processes and functions of an organisation. This software layer is an all-encompassing wrapper that the author described as including APIs, digital customer touchpoints and even Social Media.

Coincidentally I was chatting with someone in the Digital industry only a few days ago (thanks Wyndham) about how the use of web-based services can allow a company to incrementally develop its inner and external functions to remain agile & responsive to changes. I explained that via a Service Orientated Approach (SOA), a company could continually evolve its client-facing functionality (internal and external clients), wrap legacy functions and get the most from its digital agencies... by getting them to utilise any existing services.
Note:
We also questioned why digital agencies never seemed to develop work for clients using their own suite of web services to quickly deliver more intelligent work for their clients, but that's another topic for this blog sometime).

Anyhow.... Having thought about this some more, I do think there's the opportunity to not only merge the two topics mentioned above, but to then represent this in a similar (but perhaps more complex) way than McKinsey have done.

Here's what I mean:

1. McKinsey (perhaps in an effort to de-techie their report) haven't mentioned SOA and it's obvious benefit.

2. The 'software layer' is a little too catch-all for me.

3. Their diagram doesn't explain the big difference between the more technical machine-to-machine interfaces and the softer services that involve human interaction.

I guess what I'm saying here is that there might not be just one layer around the business, but possibly several service layers..... And the diagram needs to reflect this.

EU Privacy Directive - my recommendations

In my earlier post, I covered my understanding of the EU Privacy Directive and what the current situation was with this legislation in the UK.

At the end of this post I raised the question of what you can do. So here's some recommended steps you can take to compliance:

•  If you have an ecommerce site, immediately update your transaction Terms and Conditions.
• Carry out an audit of all 1^st and 3^rd Party cookies and other tracking technologies used across the sites. Then assess whether they are still required
• Clearly and accurately communicate to visitors about your cookie policy and what tracking is used.
• Develop a solution that requests consent if it is not already obtained. This consent needs to be obtained before any other actions are carried out on the site.   Note: Consent can only be gained by positive action (e.g. the user doing something. The user NOT doing something is not consent.
• Also check with your SEO company to see if any solution proposed affects your rankings (e.g. is seen as a blocker, cloaking, etc.?)

I would also strongly recommend that you speak with your legal representative or in-house counsel to ensure that you know your legal responsibilities when the legislation comes into force on the 26th May 2012.

EU Privacy Directive - Fact vs Fiction

There's been a lot of discussion in the last few months on the new EU Privacy legislation, so I thought I'd write-up my current understand of the situation.

The UK government has given websites until May 26th 2012 tocomply with the EU Privacy Directive. As of 26th May 2011 it has already becomelaw across a number of countries in the EU.

The Information Commissioners Office (ICO) has the power tofine website owners up to £500,000 for serious breaches of the law. But he hasstated he will take a ‘practical and proportionate’ approach to enforcement ofthis legislation where organisations are making efforts to comply.

The Directive requires consent for storage or access toinformation stored on a subscriber or users terminal equipment. In other words…
obtaining consent for cookies and similar technologies. For example this could include: Local Shared Objects, commonly referred to as “Flash Cookies”, web beacons or bugs (including transparent or clear gifs).

The only valid exception is cookies which are ‘strictly necessary’ for a service requested by the user. However the ICO has stated thatwebsite analytics are not strictly necessary. They are also aware that obtaining consent from users may affect website owners’ ability to track users. In fact, when an opt-in message was placed on the ICO's own site, they saw visits (from opt-in users only) drop considerably. However, this will not stop them responding to complaints from visitors or carrying out their own investigations.

So what can you do?

(I'll hope to cover than in a subsequent post)